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RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

GreenAnole09 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 04:36:19 GMT

That's a cool snake.I'd like to get a pretty morph like that.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

blkfirecrystal — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:34:33 GMT

Bill Love (9/13/2008)

The mystery snake is definitely a corn snake (Elaphe guttata), 100%! It was found in the wild in South Carolina about a month ago, or maybe slightly further back. It's a healthy, adult male roughly 3.5 - 4 feet long. The person who caught it has given it to a herper who'll do his best to breed it to multiple females next season and get the trait firmly established in captivity. I spoke with the owner at length in hopes of helping assure that he's successful in that endeavor.

Here Herptile.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:51:01 GMT

Guys, i will give you my gues and i am sure that you will all agree with me. It is a american rat snake. They can be found in the pet trade, it can come in bright orange, it has large eyes, and it is found in florida. It matches the creature in the pic perfecly.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

blkfirecrystal — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:23:45 GMT

Huh, I was betting on Rat. I live in Texas, and am familiar with good ol' E. obsoleta lindheimeri. Nasty attitudes most of the time, but Trans-pecos rats are lovely, especially the big eyes.
So, a possible leucistic corn? That's awesome. Tell your friend to breed the thunder out of him, I'll be interested.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

oneWorld — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:06:17 GMT

It WAS a corn! Wow, I'm proud of myself for getting that on the first shot.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

Bill Love — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:47:04 GMT

I'm glad that picture spurred some lively debate! I've been away the last 8 days at the big herp show in Anaheim, California, where btw I had the pleasure of meeting the REPTILES forum moderator, so I'll try to clear up some of the mystery now that I'm home.

At my recent photo session, I spent 2 hours taking images of it from every conceivable angle, and can attest to it being a pure corn snake, not a hybrid with a local obsoleta rat snake as some speculated (a natural speculation, I should add). There have been a couple 'calico' obsoleta rat snakes over the years that had coloration resembling this, and I even wondered about its identity until I handled it in person. This specimen's scales are virtually smooth, though slight keeling can be detected on those nearest the midline of the back. I've promised all the best images to my friend Don Soderberg (South Mountain Reptiles in Texas) for his upcoming giant book of everything corn snake, so I don't want to 'steal the thunder' now by publishing too many of those close-up pics before the new book appears sometime this winter or next spring.

At this point, I'm not completely sure how to describe the trait except that my gut feeling says it's something new. But I'll also willingly admit it might be leucism (adjective = leucistic), which has occurred in obsoleta rat snakes before, notable Texas rats (E. o. lindheimeri). Often there are a few dark reddish scales present on them. This corn's eyes look very much like those of leucistic Texas rats too. Here's a close-up....

If this is leucism showing up in corns (finally!?!), it may be that the tendency for 'stray' pigmented scales is just amplified in this case, and may be showing the extreme on the heavy side of what its range might be. Until more are produced to show us the range of variation, we can just guess.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:48:43 GMT

No, if you look at the skin carefully, then you will notice that it is a animal redish brown in color. King snakes do not come in this color. Here are the clues and nots that i have picked up.

It live most likely in florida

It is at least 4ft long

It is a good climber

It was most likely to have been born, raised, and escaped from captivity.

And in natual turns, it is redish brown.

And it has big, nocturnal eyes.

Now try to build off of these notes and figger out the species. I alredy have a answer to the quetsion. But the problem is can you get it too?

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

BigCatTattoos — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:51:04 GMT

Personally I think it looks more like a king snake.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

mahoho — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:27:37 GMT

I say its a everglades rat snake. head is not big enough for a corn and a corns tail looks fatter in proportion to the rest of the body. I know some one already said that but thats my 2 cents

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:21:02 GMT

Sorry reptile dude. It was crested man who said that it was a hybid. my bad.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

herpdude86 — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:05:44 GMT

Um, herptile just because the friend is now going to breed the snake, does not mean it is a captive herp. Now it is, because the guy just found it. That is how we have many of the morphs available today. Someone found a new color, patter, ect.. in a wild herp and bred that herp.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

oneWorld — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:59:03 GMT

I don't believe I ever made a theory about it being a hybrid...

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:54:43 GMT

[ It's not a hybrid, but it's definitely abnormal in coloration. The owner will, of course, be trying to breed more like it.

NO!!!!! We have not finished yet. So look at what love said. he said that it is not a hybrid. So that knocks out your theroy reptile dude. He also daid that the owner will be breeding more like it. Meaning that it was a captive aniaml. Like I said. Also, Yes, albinos have bad eye sight. Now we are all going to examin this pic for the next 3 days. O.K?

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

GreenAnole09 — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:51:04 GMT

Pretty much.I'm glad someone is with me.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

oneWorld — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:36:00 GMT

Alright everybody, lets just calm down. quit arguing, and patiently wait for Mr. Love to come on and tell us what it is.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

Crested Man — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:52:23 GMT

the herptile master (9/6/2008)

Blk, i am not in a good mood today concidering that my crestie died.

Nobody's in a good mood when there Crested dies. My guess is an part albino part non-albino Everglades Ratsnake.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

GreenAnole09 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:20:52 GMT

the herptile master (9/6/2008)

I am sure that it is a false albino. A false albino is a animal that is close to albino in color but has good eye sight.

Albinos have bad eye-sight?

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:59:20 GMT

I am sure that it is a false albino. A false albino is a animal that is close to albino in color but has good eye sight. And also, read my post agian and you will understand what i am talking about. And also, the color patches on the creature can help give us a picuture on what this aniaml would look natually.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

herpdude86 — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 09:28:58 GMT

But I don't think its albino. And most animals left in the wild die. Pine snakes survive quite well.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:15:31 GMT

Blk, i am not in a good mood today concidering that my crestie died. But i have sevrile accrit field guids that say that the king, milk, and rat snakes in north america are in the same genus. And also, i still think that it is a escaped captive bred animal. Think about it. Why do you think that large, albino wild reptiles are so rare? It is becouse they cant hide from both there pray and there preaditors. I give that snake a month before it starves to death or something eats it.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

blkfirecrystal — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:25:21 GMT

the herptile master (9/5/2008)

It is definally a rat snake of some sort weather it be a corn, milk or king. or even a true rat snake. It definally was born in captivity becouse it is a albino.

Corns and Kings/milks are not types of ratsnakes.
Ratsnakes: Pantherophis (elaphe) spp.
Cornsnakes: Elaphe guttata (sister species in the genera)
King/milksnakes: Lampropeltis spp.
And the individual seems to have dark eyes. A leucistic, perhaps.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

dragonfanatic — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:52:31 GMT

I don't have any idea of what kind it is but I have seen one of these in a chicken house right down the road from where I live

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

herpdude86 — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:59:49 GMT

That is W.C. Just because it is "albino", does not mean its captive-bred. There are tons of albino wild herps, where did you think the trait was produced? In the wild, like every other trait. It all starts out like this. Find an unusual species and breed it to perfection. And that is not an albino, I believe, too. Looks more like a very, very, rare coloration.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

the herptile master — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:48:25 GMT

It is definally a rat snake of some sort weather it be a corn, milk or king. or even a true rat snake. It definally was born in captivity becouse it is a albino.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

blkfirecrystal — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:35:10 GMT

Do you have any closer head shots or anal plates? Can't tell keeled or smooth scales, intraoculars, labials, single or divided anal plate,etc.

Corns and rats would be weakly keeled, and a divided plate. I know you and Kathy have a lot of experience with those. Any more hints you can give?

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

GreenAnole09 — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:11:59 GMT

I'm not a big expert on Floridian snakes but, I can count out Ringneck that's for sure.It looks like a Ratsnake and it looks like an Albino Ratsnake bred with another Ratsnake that had a different morph to make this beauty.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

herpdude86 — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:58:19 GMT

I'm no expert on snakes but the head looks wrong for a corn, less definition of a neck, but I could be wrong.

RE: This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

oneWorld — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:39:06 GMT

It appears to be a kind of ratsnake. A corn snake perhaps?

This is a wild-caught snake. Anyone know what it is?

Bill Love — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:29:29 GMT

This was found just a few weeks ago in the wild. Any guesses on the ID? It's not a hybrid, but it's definitely abnormal in coloration. The owner will, of course, be trying to breed more like it.