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RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

michaelpizzardello — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:35:16 GMT

hi cool tank i want one of those soon

MY HERPS

3 EASTERN WATER DRAGONS,SPOTTED PYTHON,MARSH FROG,5 WATER SKINKS, 2 BLUE TONGUE SKINKS AND A FRESH WATER CROC

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

sgtpepper0 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:44:34 GMT

Guys, listen to the RM, okay?

Oh and being ON TOPIC, Drake is gorgeous!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

herpsrule13 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:39:47 GMT

i agree and disagree, while grant is experienced and knowledgable, Jsin is an experienced herper who has experimented and kept herps longer than "us kids" Just because Grant has been on this forum longer doesn't make him experienced. It's his knowledge and how correct it is

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Zoofew — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:41:10 GMT

hey grant has been on this forum longer then you, i remember when hes username was roho!
so you have no ground to call him a inexperienced herper!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

ReptileChannel Moderator — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:40:28 GMT

Please behave everyone. I know you can all have spirited debates without resorting to making personal jabs at one another.

R.M.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

jsinhardcore — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:42:50 GMT

Grant

I have already stated my point and I don't need to argue with your stubborn and prejudiced views any more, which is obviously not what you would like me to do based on your provocative response.

..................................... 1st off whos being stubborn here? Your the newbie in this hobby who was just taught a FACT they did not know by some one much more experianced then them selves and you instantly revolted against it since it went again your current BELIFES. That sir, is being stubborn. 2nd, if you "don't need to argue with your (my) stubborn and prejudiced views any more" Why post this message? And i was un -aware this was an argument. I was under the impression this was a discussion on fair ground. Chillax. You might learn something.

Grant

And why are you a member of a forum if you don't like communicating with people?

............................ To teach kids like you and make you guys better keepers.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Grant — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:05:53 GMT

I have already stated my point and I don't need to argue with your stubborn and prejudiced views any more, which is obviously not what you would like me to do based on your provocative response.

And why are you a member of a forum if you don't like communicating with people?

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

opal — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:41:03 GMT

good.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

jsinhardcore — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:38:42 GMT

No worries Opal.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

opal — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:31:56 GMT

jsinhardcore, sorry. my fault. i'm having a bad day.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

herpsrule13 — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:07:25 GMT

His writing is fine, i don't think he will get banned for that...

I have always thought of impaction as swallowing dirt, gravel etc. This new impaction iidea of humidity is interesting. As an experinced herp keeper i respect after reading your posts. I too find people annoying, however there are some good ones out there and we can't survive without them. i do get most of my info off the Web and when i research something i research it a lot and comapre with other ideas. I'd like to talk more with you and learn from you. I got back into the hobby a while ago and need to learn a lot

Grant is 14 and knowledgable and has many friends that are successful breeders such as Bill schwinn (i think that's his last name)

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

opal — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:54:58 GMT

well, okay. i can see that. please don't write that large. the mod's might get upset. just looking out for ya. thay might lock a topic or ban you. It's highly unlikely that they will ban you but it happens.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

jsinhardcore — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:50:07 GMT

I like to instigate discussions not arguments. And to be honest my posts here are mostly for the benefit of the people who do not post but read and think about the different suggestions in the posts here and apply that to their own husbandry practices. I also am not here for people to like me. I dont care about the people here one bit or what they or you think of me. I care about the captives not the keepers. Im here to share my experience and to hopefully better the husbandry standards of other keepers that read this forum . I dont cater to the feelings or egos of other posters cause its not about them. I hate people. I love reptiles. And just like school, no one forces the kids to pay attention to the teacher.(And why should they? They all already know it all.)

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

opal — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:38:35 GMT

hey jsinhardcore, you really seem to like to instigate arguments. please take our info, if you don't like it. say in nicely. i can already tell that I won't like you.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

jsinhardcore — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:04:51 GMT

Grant

Jsinhardcore, I have no idea where you are getting your information from, but I must say that ninety-nine percent of it is not true.

...........................................

Considering the fact that i have a daughter thats older then you and i have been actively keeping and breeding reptiles longer then you have been alive (your only 13-14 years old right?) I dont see how you come off saying 99% of my info is incorrect. Hell i hatched out my first beardie in 97. You were like 2 that year. So i guess the answer to your question is .......17 years of practical reptile keeping experience and conversations with keepers with far more experience then either you or i is where i "get my information from". Im sure your info comes from care sheets, out dated books and other keepers as inexperienced as you on the internet.

Grant

125 degrees! That is way too hot for a bearded dragon! 110 is the maxiumum for babies to help them grow faster, and 100 to 105 for adults. Temperatures like that will surely lead to premature death.

..........................................

Wow i better tell these guys cause they dont seem to know that. this pic is not mine.

Grant

Impaction is definitely caused by none digestible substances, not dehydration.

...................................

If that is the case then why havent all my geckos gotten impacted after 10 years of being paired up in this style of setup. 10 years and not one impaction. could it be because i give my leos a 100 basking surface temp? Or because i dont have open tops on any of my enclosures keeping the humidity levels higher then most? You tell me.

Grant

So tell me then, how does a LACK of water cause the intestines to be blocked?

......................I guess you have never been constipated before huh?

Grant

They need to have very low humidity, under thirty percent. They can easily get URI's if they have too high of humidity. If they are having trouble shedding, give them a weekly "bath."

.................................... The fact that beardies survive in the type of enclosure i feel your advocating (low basking temps, very low/narrow humidity and ambient temp rages) is far from a testimony of how good the practice is . Its a testimony to how much bad husbandry a beardie can endure.

p.s. Grant if a came/come off rude that was not and is not my intent. Maximum im sorry for the post hijacking but with discussion like these people learn alot and their animals are taken better care of because of that.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Grant — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:18:14 GMT

Maximum, I wasn't talking to you. I didn't see your newest post (I posted two minutes after you). I was referring to some of the others that replied.

Sorry.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Maximum — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:12:12 GMT

I wasn't getting worked up, I was just explaining myself, because when I posted it, I didn't think it would be taken that literally. But thats my fault, I should have made it clearer.

I am open to any and all suggestions. You can never know too much. I do agree with the "better safe than sorry" way of thinking and apply it to all of my animals, but it didn't work out this time.

Impaction is a complicated subject and can be very controversial. Everyone has their own opinions on it and thats absolutely fine, but lets please not start a fight on it.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Grant — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:52:02 GMT

Just making a suggestion, it's nothing to get all worked up over.

Why does he need to ask for advice to be given? Or am I breaking a rule by trying to give a suggestion that I believe is correct? I never said that he didn't know what he was doing, I WAS JUST MAKING A SUGGESTION. Sure, most bearded dragons will live a long, healthy life on sand, but some will not be so lucky. I'm just one of those "better safe than sorry" people when it comes to keeping reptiles.

Jsinhardcore, I have no idea where you are getting your information from, but I must say that ninety-nine percent of it is not true.

1. 125 degrees! That is way too hot for a bearded dragon! 110 is the maxiumum for babies to help them grow faster, and 100 to 105 for adults. Temperatures like that will surely lead to premature death.

2. Impaction is definitely caused by none digestible substances, not dehydration. So tell me then, how does a LACK of water cause the intestines to be blocked? And if you don't believe me because what I'm saying is "BS," then look at these x-rays of an impacted leopard gecko and tell me otherwise.

White areas indicate sand.
The soil in Australia is hard-packed, and bearded dragons have all the nutrients they need from the dozens of varieties of insects and plants they have to eat in the wild, so there is no need for them to attempt to ingest substrate.

3. They need to have very low humidity, under thirty percent. They can easily get URI's if they have too high of humidity. If they are having trouble shedding, give them a weekly "bath."

Sorry if I'm coming off as rude, but you guys came off as rude towards me.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Maximum — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:50:08 GMT

Alright, let me rephrase that: Drake did not respond well to the introduction of tile to his tank. I said "hate" because I thought that gave a general idea, I do know that herps do not have emotions, in a sense.

When I put Drake on tile he went from being active to sitting in his hide all day, every day and only came out when I made him to sit under the lamp and eat. He also became very skittish and defensive because he could not move the same way he did before, the tile was new to him and he had trouble with slipping. This behavior changed dramatically when I put him back on sand and he went back to his normal self.

Thank you for the compliments!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

oneWorld — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:37:46 GMT

Beautiful enclosure! It really is looking great!

And Grant I have kept my beardie on sand his whole life, and I know many people who have done the same (including many breeders, "famous" herpkeepers, etc.) and have never had any problems.

I personally find tile annoying since their poop can leak in between the pieces making cleaning rough, and if the poop dries then you have to scrape it off, etc. It also has, like zero traction, making it very difficult for lizards to move (they seem to just run in place - lol.)

REMEMBER: he didn't make this thread asking what your opinions about sand were, it was to show you his enclosure. I know him, and trust me, he knows what hes doing.

Congrats on the great enclosure!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

jsinhardcore — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:04:00 GMT

Grant imapactions are not caused by sand or dirt or any other loose substrate. Just like when your mom would say not to swallow your gum cause it will bind you all up, its B.S. Impactions are caused by long term low level dehydration. Just like when a human is sick and dehydrated they get constipated and unable to go to the bathroom, its the same thing. Really just think about it , if loose substrates caused impactions then every beardie in Australia would be impacted right? But they are not. The reason being is they have access to a much wider temp. and humidity gradient in the wild then most people provide them in captivity. They can choose what temps and humiditys they want at what ever time to function at full capacity The problem starts with keepers housing their captives in an open/screen topped enclosure and then adds a high wattage heat bulb and deciding for the lizard what temps it can have access to and what the humidity levels are. All the humidity and heat escapes out the screen top and then you have a dehydrated lizard prone to imapaction. A properly heated and hydrated lizard can pass what ever particulate substrate it ingests its as simple as that.

Maximum your setup looks well on its way and better then most but if i was you i would put a solid plywood or plexi top on that tank,add about another 6" or so of MOIST playsand (not too moist. you want it dry on top but moist at depth). And try to nail that beardies basking temp with an inferred temp gun to 125F-130F. If you do you will have the happiest healthiest beardie on your block!

p.s. All this talk of reptiles having emotions is laughable. You people need to stop thinking like mammals and start thinking like reptiles since that is what your keeping.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Poison — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:07:34 GMT

uh... not so sure about that zero emotions part...

and I think what he means by "hated" it, was the animal acted miserable... I think you are mixing up emotions with an actual condition...

But, hey, I think if they were completely without opinion of their surroundings I wouldn't have seen someone reach into an enclosure to pet a large beardie and have the thing close it's eyes and lean into her hand.....

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

SP — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:29:59 GMT

i think reptiles in a way do have "emotions" by which i mean just like any other animal they can be afraid or discomforted by something in a way that makes them avoid that thing, they can be finicky and choose to only eat foods they like and to only allow people they know to touch them. My monitor knows who he knows, i seriously doubt he would hurt anyone but he knows what he wants and doesnt, it took him a long time to go from the flooring he had been on for almost a year to the flooring he is on now, easy to clean but a little smooth. he is cool with it now but walked funny for a month and would only hang out in half his cage. i prefer cage carpets over any other flooring for lizards but it is up to everyone to choose what works for them. i tried sand , for a very brief period of time with my monitor as a youngin and verrry quickly noticed it wasnt for us at all at all. as far as i know playsand it the safest if you are going to use sand and it sounds like drake is happy now and not eating it so thats good, basically what i wanted to say was ... your enclosure looks so cool, very natural and bright. 5 months ago we got a new cage and we are loving it, there is a vid in the vids section of my monitor running around in it, we decided to just give him his blankets and a few little carpets and not do a "real floor" because the only thing i would consider and did consider would be a system of attatchable carpets (like i used for his old cage) that could be pulled out and thrown in the washer when they got scaley and stuff but i decided it was easier just to clean it out bare and its going great! Like the pic!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Grant — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:54:16 GMT

I would stick with tile, but, ultimately, it is your choice. You don't really know if your bearded dragon "hated" it. Reptiles don't exactly have emotions like mammals, just instincts. I think that he would eventually get used to it. In the wild, bearded dragons live in hard packed areas of sand (basically like rock, AKA tile!) and are not burrowers by nature. Bearded dragons are also very liable to impaction whether you are being "safe" with sand (which isn't really possible).

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Maximum — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:40:22 GMT

herpsrule: I am going to get more herps. And I am trying to get a new bluey soon, but most likely I will get it when we move.

Roho: I do know the risk. I have put Drake on tile before, only to have him hate it. He had trouble walking and stayed in his hide most of the time until I changed. So now he is on play sand which he enjoys very much. I only feed him using his bowl, using his large rock (free of substrate), or he eats outside in his pen where he spends most warm, sunny days in.

And I find its much easier to clean, all I have to do is scoop out the stool and the surrounding area. Contrary to having to move the decor, lifting and maneuvering the tile, taking it outside, hosing it down, disinfecting it, drying it and putting it back in.

Thank you for the comments!

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

herpsrule13 — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:24:08 GMT

again nice, roho- i as going to tell him about that but maxium is an experienced herp keeper so dont you think he is being careful? just a thought

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

Grant — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:12:03 GMT

Nice tank, glad to hear you are upgrading it soon; it looks pretty small for Drake.

I would ditch the sand. Impaction (whether calcium sand or not) is a HUGE risk with bearded dragons, plus it is harder to clean. Tile is so much better.

RE: Update on Drake's Enclosure

herpsrule13 — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:13:21 GMT

very nice, off topic Q: with your moving you are going o get another blue tongu, correct? do you think youll be able to get more herps?

Update on Drake's Enclosure

Maximum — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:44:15 GMT

I redid Drakes enclosure recently, adding a basking rock and this huge piece of driftwood I found. He is in a 55 gallon tank right now, soon to be a 4' x 2', as soon as we move out of our current house.

Here it is: