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RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

jsinhardcore — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:12:18 GMT

The point is your snake is saying to you by its clear behavior, "I want to burrow". For what ever the snakes many possible reasons are. Just listen to what its saying and act accordingly. Give it the ability to do so. Bigger cage, more substrate.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:22:25 GMT

Jsin, i hear you but the thing is it doesnt make any sense, because when the python digs, its in the cool side of the tank, at night, when theres no heat source at that end of the terrarium. So basically, its really cool there. the only thing that stays on at night is the heatmat on the other side of the terrairum where his hide is.

So i'm all about listening to the snake's need, but this behaviour happens when he couldn't be more alreaady away from the heat source.

what do you think?

thanks for the thermometer reccomendation, will most def look into it

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

jsinhardcore — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:32:28 GMT

Jack B. Nimble (10/26/2009)

Jsin,

whats your advice then? specific one to reccomend (sic)? .

I thought i gave that already You said your ball is feeding fine, so you know hes healthy and doing ok physically. No problems there. The problem is persistent shoving away at that bottom corner by the water bowl right? I say your snake is trying to TELL YOU it wants to go down and away from the heat source. Listen to it. Give it a bigger cage and a deeper substrate layer it can actually burrow in, like aspen. Thats my advice.

Here are the thermometers I recommend .

For measuring surface temps http://www.tempgun.com/main.html

For measuring air temps and humidity levels http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Deluxe-Thermometers-Humidity-Gauges

The reason you cant find a consensus is every captive ball behaves a little different then the next and every keeper cares for their captives a little differently then the next guy. Such is dealing with living creatures. So again, listen to your snake and not to the humans.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:58:37 GMT

thanks ratsnake,

but thats my actual problem, i cannot find a general concensus, every website out there says something different, not a single website i found shows you a step by step procedure on how to setup your tank with photos, where the hide goes Vs water Vs light Vs heatmat, why position them that way, how to control temperatures accurately, etc. Somehow the information is always incomplete and lacks explaining a lot of variables.

as i said i'll take pics and post them here hopefully tonight.

By all means, if any of you guys know of such a website with the kind of detailed info i'm looking for, please share.

thanks guys. be back shortly with the flix.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:47:20 GMT

Jsin,

whats your advice then? specific one to reccomend?

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Ratsnake — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:52:07 GMT

Oops. I thought you meant ambient CAGE temperatures. Well, the general consenses for ball pythons is a hot spot of 90 and a cool side of 80. You can experiment with bulb wattages to start with. In my former ball python setup, I had a 100 watt infared lamp with a stack of cork bark and wood postitioned under it. The temp at the verry top was 96, so my ball would position himself high or low depending on his needs. The temps on the cool side were always around 80 to 82. This snake liked it hot and would spend at least an hour or two on top of the stack every night. He never did the digging in the corner thing.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

jsinhardcore — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:48:17 GMT

This is why providing pics of your setup is WAY better then just typed words.

The temps in your setup should be : A 100F basking surface temp and ambient air temps ranging from 90F on the hot end down to 70F on the cool end. If your measuring your temps with a pet shop stick on thermometer then you have no idea what your actual temps are since they are soooooo inaccurate.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:58:51 GMT

i said ambient is 70, its hotter in the terrarium, temperatures i posted before.

one says too hot, the other too cold....can someone tell me exactly exactly what temperatures it should be in the terrarium, and the best setup to achieve that? So i can make sure i did it right...

thanks folks, greatly appreciated

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Ratsnake — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:45:35 GMT

By regular thermometer do you mean one of those stick on things? They are not too acurate. If your ambient temps are 70, then thats too cool and you need to step it up.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:27:20 GMT

regular thermometer...

ambient temperature stays around 70

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Ratsnake — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:31:27 GMT

What are you using to measure your temperatures? A heat mat and a lamp going at the same time should be pretty hot. When I had ball pythons they had a basking spot that reached 92 with an ambient temp of 80 and all I had was an infrared bulb and dome.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:00:35 GMT

alright well i'll take pics tonight....

the temperatures are in the mid 80's on the side of his hide, heated by a heatmat and a light, and in the mid 70's i think on the side of the water. they go down a little at night. So seriously, i really don't think he's too hot, matter a fact i was worried at first that it wouldnt be hot enough. But he does seem to enjoy the temperature in his hide, as he is often there, and comes out once in a while to go cool off.

now i should say that when he digs or does the vigorous pushing, its always about a week and a half after a meal, when he starts to get hungry again. So i'm thinking maybe his curiosity goes up a notch during that time since his instinct is to try to find food? he gets very active when he's hungry.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

jsinhardcore — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:56:21 GMT

Jack B. Nimble (10/21/2009)

So anyways, i've noticed that Dexter (thats his name) constantly digs in the substrate with his head. He always does it around the same area, in the corner of the terrarium next to where his water is.

i ask myself, is this normal behaviour(sic)? should i worry about this? He really, really likes to kind of try to force his way into corners with his head.

.........................................No this is not normal behavior.You ball is trying to tell you that something is wrong with your setup and it wants out. It is not content with what you have provided it. Going with the info you have provided in lieu of showing pics of your setup and temps, my opinion is your temps are too high and your wrong about them being in the correct ranges (at least for your individual captive). The thing that makes me think this is you stated
He always does it around the same area, in the corner of the terrarium next to where his water is.
Normally this is the corner furthest from the heat in most keepers setups, hence my opinion. Again, please post pics showing your temps as well as the setup.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Ratsnake — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:53:43 GMT

Most snakes don't understand glass, so he may think he can go through it and just won't give up. Try putting some more cage decor like cork tubes or flats or branches to stimulate him and see if he stops digging.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:09:41 GMT

as i said, he is in his hide most of the day and theres no light at night, and thats when he tries to dig. So i don't think its the light since there is none when he shows that behaviour.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Grant — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 04:34:28 GMT

The light may be stressing him out. Obviously, there will be some light in the cage, but a light directly on it will add a lot of light. Nocturnal snakes like ball pythons prefer to stay in darker areas, which may explain why he is trying to leave the area. Take the light off and see if anything changes.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:21:48 GMT

yah i hear you...

when i was a kid and went on camping trips with my parents, i'd go for hours alone to catch snakes...i would bring them back home to try to have them as pets but they would die soon after, they couldn't adapt...So i stopped of course...

even now, i take every and any chance i get to try to find small snakes when i go in the country. Its the kid and reptile lover in me, it doesnt go away...

so yeah, having a ball python now is a bit like accomplishing what i was trying to do when i was a kid bringing those snakes home....its simply amazing...

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

damiens daddy ken — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:30:50 GMT

Some snakes just never lose the instinct to want to try and escape and to me that's what it sounds like he is doing.If he is eating usin his hide during the day and active at night that is pretty normal behavior for most snakes,most are nocturnal.And as far as feeding him in another tank you don't have to do that just try papertowls or plates like was sugested before.You just have to watch and make sure that none of it makes it into his mouth or he can choke.I usually use like a jungle mix if i'm keeping them on regoular bedding it is alot finer.I actually keep my ball on carpet but the only problem there is if he misses he can get his teeth stuck in it.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:00:50 GMT

yeah covering 3 sides is the next step, i've put a towel over part of it and it seems to "help"...

The temperatures are what they should be for a ball python, and i provide heating both with a pad and a light...

humidity stays around 50-60%...

He's a little short of 4 feet long, and for a tank 12x18x36, i'm pretty sure he's alright....i was told thats more than enough for an adult ball.

Frankly there are no signs of stress or insecurity, he never refused a meal, spends most of his time in his hide during the day, is more active at night, etc...

its just the digging...but then again he seems very curious and at night is constantly looking around and trying to find an opening...which i think is in their nature?

maybe i'm just worrying for nothing...

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Ratsnake — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:08:11 GMT

Jack B. Nimble (10/22/2009)

oh, alright....

One problem tho, if i feed him in another tank, i've heard i can't hold him for 48 hours, so how do i put him back in his regular tank where his hiding spot is? he's gonna wanna go there after feeding...

thanks for the heads up

Just feed him in his cage. Feeding in a separate cage is silly. Once the snake has eaten in a separate container, you need to wait for the feeding response to die down or you may get bit when you try to get him out. If you are worried about him swallowing bark, just put the mouse or rat on a paper plate or paper towels or just watch closely to make sure no bark sticks to the food. If your snake is hydrated and has the proper temperatures than he will be able to pass particle substrate or bark should he accidentally swallow a piece. I used the paper towel method when I used bark and had no problems.

If you have to move your snake back to his cage after eating, then do it. Nothing will happen. The reason that it's recommended to not handle your snake after eating is because he may vomit if he is stressed or feels threatened. This does not happen that often in captivity, but I always just leave them alone for 2 days after a meal.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Sinkarnate — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:53:21 GMT

how big is he compared to the cage?
Maybe he does need more space, or deeper substrate?
what are the temps and humidity at and how are you providing them? (light vs heat mat)
what else is in the tank?
also if it's in a glass tank maybe try covering three of the sides.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:46:36 GMT

yeah thats what he does....vigourous pushing....but his hiding spot is i think far from too large...in fact when i bought it i thought he wouldn't fit in there....I know Balls like it when the spot they hide in touches their skin for that sense of security, so i made sure it was the case for dexter...

so i dunno..i'll try adding substrate inside his hiding spot to make it even tighter, i'll see what happens...

thanks a bunch for the advices

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Sinkarnate — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:04:25 GMT

Just keep an eye out for real vigorous pushing.... digging into the corners can sometimes be a sign of insecurity and trying to get into something small and safe. Maybe make sure the hide isn't to big, balls, specifically like to squeeze into impossibly small spaces- They have been found in the wild squished inside termite mounds.
As I said, just keep an eye on it, look out for signs of nose rub....

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:02:27 GMT

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

mustang446 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:10:09 GMT

thats a good brand, but besure not to feed him in reptibark, it will get caught in there throat ive seen snakes die from it.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:25:39 GMT

the repti-bark kind.

Anything better to reccomend?

thanks for your reply.

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

mustang446 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:06:00 GMT

your ball python is fine, theres' nothing to worry about, some snakes like to dig some don't , 1 more thing what kind of substrate do you use??

RE: Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:27:26 GMT

oh and i should also say he is in good health, he recently shed and hasn't refused any meals.

Ball Python digs in the substrate. Normal?

Jack B. Nimble — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:15:24 GMT

Hey there everyone,
So i rescued an abandonned Ball Python about 2 months ago. I've always been a reptile lover but never owned a snake. Its kind of a small dream come true.

So anyways, i've noticed that Dexter (thats his name) constantly digs in the substrate with his head. He always does it around the same area, in the corner of the terrarium next to where his water is.

i ask myself, is this normal behaviour? should i worry about this? He really, really likes to kind of try to force his way into corners with his head.

I should say he's got a normal size terrarium, 12x18x36, so i doubt he needs anymore space. He's got his hiding spot, and temperature seems well regulated in both ends of the terrarium.

So yah, opinion? advice? input?

thanks all,
cheers.