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RE: Real wood and rocks?

benandmax — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:20:10 GMT

for sticks: strip off the bark and place into oven at 350 for 15-20 mins. 20 to be safe. can be placed into a HOT bathtub

rocks: same thing. Careful taking out the rocks!!!

RE: Real wood and rocks?

senior beaver — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:30:22 GMT

Put aluminum foil under it in case there is anything in it, then it will fall onto it.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:01:45 GMT

I found some really nice small branches in a wooded area behind my subdivision. First, I removed the bark (which was hiding numerous bugs) and scrubbed the wood thoroughly under the outdoor faucet. Next, I soaked them in a bucket of diluted bleach for several hours. They have been sitting outside in the sun for several days now. I am going to check the branches today. If I see any more bugs coming out of the wood, I will throw them in the oven.

Thanks for the tips!

RE: Real wood and rocks?

shadowboxing — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:46:54 GMT

For my monitors, I don't sterilize. It's difficult to treat 1000 pounds of soil/sand and 6 to 8 foot long tree limbs. Any small buggies or bacteria get handled by their natural defenses, provided the basking spots are hot enough.

For my other snakes and lizards, I soak the cage furniture in a watered down bleach solution and let air dry for a period of almost a week, to make sure no harmful residue is left. I also treat their substrate with Provent A Mite. I've had too many bad experiences of substrates from pet stores or mulch from Home Depot coming equipped with little wood mites.

Hope that helps.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jschristy — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:45:42 GMT

I sterilize because all of my animals are CB animals that are not used to being exposed to the same things as their WC counterparts. Also, they spray for bugs and fertilize regularly around my area, so I wanna make sure those things are out of the decor that I am using. Why risk potentially harming your animal(s) with things that may be harmful in the decor/substrate that you get from outside? The stuff in the fauna/dirts around people's houses generally aren't the same as found in the animal's natural habitat.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

opal — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:07:37 GMT

good choice. CRAP!

RE: Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:04:33 GMT

jsinhardcore (10/30/2009)

Just spread the soil out on a very large black plastic garbage bag, moisten it up, then let it sit out in full sunlight till its bone dry. The bugs (most importantly ants. I HATE ANTS!!!!) will go running leaving behind a very nice still biologically active soil.

I assume that the black plastic would generate very high heat. Aside from detering insects, wouldn't it also kill any insect eggs and larva?

I don't think I would be trying the dirt thing any time soon. Maybe in the future sometime.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Grant — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:00:06 GMT

Both sides in this argument have their points.

Jsin has rock-solid evidence that his method works, by the simple fact that he has successfully raised and bred animals with his methods for years. You can't deny that his ways work.

But, I am a person that believes it is better to be safe than sorry, so I personally would sterilize (in a ten percent bleach solution) products from outside, just to be safe.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

senior beaver — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:58:02 GMT

I would still suggest steralizing the soil, there many eggs & things that can come to life after it is moist again. Over at jsin's house (666 Hellsgates Dr.) it is plenty hot & sterile lol. Peace & Love, Peace & Love.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:39:49 GMT

RE: Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:10:44 GMT

jsinhardcore (10/30/2009)

Leogecko. If you add a deep layer of unsterilized dirt to your setup and add a few pillbugs and earth worms, they as well as all the benificial bactiria in the dirt will take care of any feces or dead crickets you might miss making cage cleaning even less of a chore.

I had thought about using dirt when I first started to set up Yoshi's tank. My husband didn't like the idea of dirt and who knows what kind of bugs in the house. So I use reptile carpet instead. I do agree that the bacteria and bugs could keep it pretty clean.

I don't find cleaning a chore. It is kind of fun to do daily maintenance.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:06:09 GMT

Sinkarnate (10/30/2009)

I gave you a whole list of possible problems. Just because they haven't happened to you doesn't mean they don't happen to anyone EVER.
That would be like if my mom -who has been driving for over 27 years- said "I have never been in a car accident therefore I am invincible and it never happens because it has never happened to ME."
And I would really like to know where you get your information on animals in the wild living longer.... because most animals in captivity have an average life span 4-8 years (or more) longer than their wild counterparts. Disregarding the fact of predators.

.........................Well first off if your mother did say something like that you would just go online and be able to pull up thousands of accident reports and images to prove her wrong, unlike here where you have provided no proof to back up your statements. Second as far as captive living on average longer then their wild counter parts, again back it up show some proof. Show me multiple captives from multiple collections all exceeding wild life spans.

Anyway what do i know about keeping reptiles?

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:49:20 GMT

RE: Real wood and rocks?

damiens daddy ken — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:19:54 GMT

I see js point,and as far as the captive animals living longer than those in the wild,someone said it but i don't remeber who.The other thing you need to realize about in the wild is there are other things such as predators and people that kill them on purpose or run over them by accident in their cars.Animals in captivity don't have to face those dangers.Now with that being said I still sterilize everything,even when i just clean the cages everything that goes back in gets sterilized.I just feel better that way but it is more for my peice of mind.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:09:13 GMT

senior beaver (10/30/2009)

Very smart Leo, as for jsin, I guess you just can't teach an old dog new tricks. Once again why risk it.

....................It sure seems you cant. What i find amusing is the fact that there is no risk.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:58:02 GMT

RE: Real wood and rocks?

senior beaver — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:55:21 GMT

Very smart Leo, as for jsin, I guess you just can't teach an old dog new tricks. Once again why risk it.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:08:19 GMT

I posted my question on two different forums. Based on the answers I have gotten from both, I have made my decision.

I am going to clean and sterilize the outdoor items as best I can. Any object that goes into my terrarium gets sterilized before first use. Who knows if someone returned an item to the pet store when it was used on a sick animal?

As far as maintenance cleaning goes, I am kind of lazy. I wash accesories with soap and water once a month (except the water dish, which is washed twice a week). I have paper in the poop corner, and that is removed daily. I plan on bleaching and doing a thorough cleaning twice a year.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:59:05 GMT

Now provide evidence to back up your opinion and prove that the need for sterilizing cage furnishings is fact.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

sgtpepper0 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:47:53 GMT

As far as adding my opinion, I believe in sterilization.

There are many types of microbes living in the wood and in the excrement of other living things, like before stated.

Yes, the reptiles face these pests and parasites head on in nature, but what gives us the right to ultimately infect our reptiles? We, as herpetoculturists, should provide a disease-free living space. Shouldn't the best terrarium also be sterile?

I would never want to expose my geckos or tree frog to a potentially life threatening parasite. They have not been wild caught, they have no experience with these pests.

And as far as fearing the mods, I RESPECT them, and all of their decisions. They have enough crap to deal with...

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:40:47 GMT

Once again your just stateing opinion and I asked for proof? And as far as reptiles surviving longer in captivity then in the wild, that the way its supposed to be but the reality is its not. On avarage the wild counter parts of our captives do much better and live longer. Plenty of studies back this up. Thats why you dont see keepers with 25 year old leos and 30 year old beardies. I do have an 18 year old almost 6 foot male Cornsnake though which is on par with the avarage life span of the species.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:23:56 GMT

[quote]jsinhardcore (10/30/2009)

[quote]sgtpepper0 (10/30/2009)

Okay guys, everyone has voiced their opinions. It isn't about who is right or wrong, not everything is black and white.

Just let leogecko "pick her poison," so to speak.

Good luck with the gecko enclosure leogecko! [/quote]

Whats wrong with a good natured debate ona controversial subject? Scared of the mods? This isa very good topic and i see no reason to end the debate. This is when people learn.[/quote]

Agreed, theres nothing hostile yet, we are just discussing the different ways we keep things.
I have said before and will say again.... Everyone has their own way of doing things and everyone thinks they are right.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:22:40 GMT

If you haven't noticed wild reptiles (and most other wild animals) do not live NEARLY as long in the wild as they do in captivity. You need to start reading what I am writing rather than just seeing it.
I am not saying you NEED to buy from pet stores, I also mentioned hobby and garden stores where the materials are generally A LOT cheaper.

There are just to many possible things that could be on that little piece of wood or rock for me to want to put it, unwashed, into one of my baby's cages

Ants, or other carnivorous insects.

mosquitoes that might be chillin on it (that would not only be in the cage but then also in the house as a possible threat to everything else not just the reptiles! This may be a bit over reacting as things like malaria and west nile are not terribly common anymore but it's something I wont risk.)

small insects that the animal may eat that might be poisonous or carrying parasites (even if the parasites are not meant for that animal they can still cause devastating effects...in most cases it's when they AREN'T meant for the animal that they do actually have the worst effect.)

Spiders that may bite the animal if it feels threatened. Depending on the animal and the spider this could be fatal.

This isn't even counting the possibly harmful micro organism that may be inside the wood or clustered on a tiny piece of animal excrement....

Do I need to list more?
You have been successful without problems for some odd years, and thats great for you, maybe your lucky, maybe your not. Maybe i'm over protective... I am probably over protective. I just don't want to have any reason for my animals to get sick, no matter how slim the chance I don't want to risk it. As I already said, Why take them out of the wild if we are not going to do our best to make sure they are as healthy and happy as they can possibly be?

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:20:43 GMT

sgtpepper0 (10/30/2009)

Okay guys, everyone has voiced their opinions. It isn't about who is right or wrong, not everything is black and white.

Just let leogecko "pick her poison," so to speak.

Good luck with the gecko enclosure leogecko!

Whats wrong with a good natured debate on a controversial subject by people with opposing views? Scared of the mods? This is a very good topic and I see no reason to end the debate. This is when people learn. Do you have anything useful to add to the subject?

RE: Real wood and rocks?

sgtpepper0 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:58:51 GMT

Okay guys, everyone has voiced their opinions. It isn't about who is right or wrong, not everything is black and white.

Just let leogecko "pick her poison," so to speak.

Good luck with the gecko enclosure leogecko!

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:26:36 GMT

The funny thing is that if all this was true there would be no wild reptiles left. The germs in the dirt would have killed them all.

Every article or book I have read agrees with ME.

Well that may very well be true but plenty of accomplished keepers agree with me. HAHAHA! lol

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Ratsnake — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:03:42 GMT

I'm going to agree with JS on this one. If he's been doing this for almost 20 years with no problems, then thats good evidence. I know of plenty of monitor keepers who have similar setups and have never had problems. There is no proof that cage decor from outside needs to be sterilized. Where is the data that shows that cage decor brought in from the outside makes pet reptiles sick? Someone please show me some. It's People who disagree always cop out with the "your just lucky" line. Come on people, reptiles are not that fragile.

Sinkarnate mentioned store bought substrates and cage furniture. Guess what? They are a ripoff. $20 for a piece of wood? The only cage furnishings I will buy is cork bark flats and tubes because they are sold by the pound and aspen. Any cage furnishings that I use from petstores I already pruchased years ago. I refuse to pay those prices. I've been using rocks from my yard and all I do is run then them under hot water and scrub them to get the dirt off.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 05:35:04 GMT

LOL. You people must live in bubbles. The problems you speak of occure only in books and care sheets. Now instead of just saying "this causes that" and repeating things you read or heard are problems step up and offer proof. Ill start.

this pic was taken in 2000

now this one is from about a week ago

If your info was correct then they should not be here healthly reproducing at almost 9 years of age each.

So please show some proof. Show a reptile that contracted a sickness from being housed on non sterilized wood and dirt.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

senior beaver — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 05:03:57 GMT

My pets are way to expensive to take any chance of bringing ANY bugs into there enclosures. If you want to a chance of bringing a nest of ants etc. to your pet & they warm up & eat them all night then that is up to you, I would never. Why not be safe. Every article or book I have read agrees with ME.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:30:33 GMT

I wasn't saying that you need to look out for toxocara parasites infecting your reptiles I was using it as an example of what happens when a parasite gets into an animal it isn't supposed to be in.

I don't understand why you would use so many potentially harmful items in your captive bred animals cages where there are plenty of substrates, cage decor, climbing branches etc available in pet stores, hobby stores, or even garden stores (although in a lot of cases I sterilize those as well just not as thoroughly). So perhaps you have been lucky, or you simply haven't noticed some things that may be affecting your animals. Even if it is as simple as cutting a few years off the life span but not affecting it in any other way it is still a problem.

Optimum health is not guaranteed when using things from the wild without sterilizing them, and why bother taking an animal from the wild for our own selfish reasons if we are not at least going to provide them with the absolute best health we can?

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:59:02 GMT

When you see setups like these, housing prize animals do you think we actually sterilize all this stuff? Some keepers dig up and use TONS of dirt for their animals forever with no health issues what so ever. Me, Im lucky I only have half a ton of dirt in my living room.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:42:29 GMT

Your reasoning is incorrect and yes most species of reptile mites are VERY species/genus specific just not the common petshop snake mites (Hirstiella) which is willing to suck off of any legless ectotherm it seems. There is more risk in bringing home some thing nasty to your herps via touching animals at a herp show and shaking venders hands then by using natural furnishings from ones own back yard. In almost 2 decades of of keeping herps the only problems I EVER encountered is reproductive issues that have nothing to do with dirt and wood. Like i said 17 years of keeping ,breeding, not sterilizing anything prove this.

Next thing people will be talking about giving their pets colds or visa versa.

As far as toxocariasis. A person needs to eat dog crap to get it and i dont see anyone picking a rock up with crap on it and just putting it in a cage anyway.Obviously if your getting wood or soil from a sewage plant, or a radioactive spill site then please sterilize it first or better yet dont use it. Besides toxocariasis effects dogs, cats and people none of which are reptiles (The subjecdt at hand).

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:31:00 GMT

Mites are not species specific and their favorite resting places waiting for something to come by ARE wood and soil. Reptiles like lizards that lick everything they touch could easily pick up parasitic bacteria that is resting on the wood waiting for it's intended host and when parasites get into something that isn't what they are made for they tend to cause far worse problems than they would in the animal they were waiting for. Take a look at toxocara and it's effect on humans.
There may also be other small insects or insect eggs within the wood that could cause harm to the reptile.

And the part about knowing what type of wood it is....still important.

in other words...do not just hose it off and throw it in....

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:50:17 GMT

No it was not. Its silly and makes no sense. Reptiles have existed for millions of years in environments that are far from sterile. Personally I worry more about bringing ants in the house. Wash it off and throw it in. Nobody sterilize anything for the wild ones and they do just fine.

Now let me ask a question.

What "nasties" do you think a Pakistani leopard gecko will catch from soil and wood from the U.S.A. ? Keeping in mind how almost all internal and external parasites as well as virus and bacterium are species specific.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

Sinkarnate — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:23:29 GMT

jsinhardcore (10/29/2009)

There is no need to sterilize anything. Thats silly.

I hope that was a joke......

I have baked wood at 250 degrees for a some time (can't remember exactly) and it never gave me problems. I prefer not to use bleach on wood because it can soak in deep to some woods and may not necessarily come out easily. You also will want to look into what type of wood you are using... some can be toxic to reptiles, as everyone should know things like pine and cedar are definite no no's.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:44:14 GMT

Thanks everybody!

RE: Real wood and rocks?

jsinhardcore — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:01:38 GMT

There is no need to sterilize anything. Thats silly.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

senior beaver — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:58:43 GMT

I read in e book one time to cook @230 degrees for about 2 hrs. will kill everything, then I scrub clean. I have done this for snakes & lizard setupswith no problems.

RE: Real wood and rocks?

sgtpepper0 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:12:55 GMT

Bleach is good for sterilizing wood. Just mix four ounces of bleach per gallon of water and let is soak for an hour or up to two and a half hours. This allows the bleach to kill microbes in the wood. After bleaching, allow the wood to dry in the sun for 5 days. That way, the bleach would have dissapated...

You can also bake the wood in an oven. But you have to reach a temp of 485 degrees to destroy the microscopic pest in wood. After reaching that temp, the wood is unusable.

Best bet is to bleach it.

Real wood and rocks?

leogecko — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:44:23 GMT

I am interested in using wood and rocks that I found outside in my leopard gecko's terrarium. Has anyone used these items before? How can I properly sterilize them before use?

The reason I ask is because I want to add more climbing areas to Yoshi's enclosure. I don't have a job, and my husband has to support my hobby. I can't keep spending fifteen dollars or more on things at the pet store.