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RE: the care of false water cobras

Bugman — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:03:46 GMT

I'm getting into this post kinda late, but here's my two cents. In the May 2008 issue of reptiles there was an article about False Water Cobras written by Ken Foose. In it he said about FWCs to "give them the respect and demand they deserve, just like you would with any venemous reptile" and that they "should be treated no differently than any other life-threatening venemous snake". He also said that deaths have been recorded from the bites of FWCs in their native range. From what I've read, the venom of this species is not very well understood. It is my personal belief that all venemous snakes, even those considered "not dangerous", should be handled very carefully and only kept by those with sufficient experience.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:53:39 GMT

Have you ever been bitten by a snake? Actually bitten... not just tagged? When they strike and hold it can actually be a real chore getting them off. If a FWC bites and holds it will have ample time to deliver it's venom.
People say the same thing about sea snakes and coral snakes, that they aren't really dangerous because they have small fangs and they have to chew on you for a bit to really deliver the venom. and this simply isn't true. one well placed strike, even if it isn't holding on will get the venom in.
I'm not trying to say FWC's are on the same level as corals and sea snakes...definitely not. They do have a very inefficient delivery system and small amounts of venom but there is still a great risk, especially if you do happen to be that one that has a bad reaction to the venom. Yes thats a "what if" a question and if we all lived by "what if's" nothing would ever happen but it is something you have to consider. It doesn't mean you should go out and do what makes you happy but it does mean you should be cautious. Think of every possible consequence. If you get bit and you get a good dose of venom your lookin at a rattle snake basically. If you get bit and you have a bad reaction, even if it's a small amount the chances of you dying are extremely high, especially since most hospitals do not carry FWC antivenin.
This doesn't mean no one anywhere should own FWC's or other semi hots and hots...it just means to be careful and think about it.

RE: the care of false water cobras

reticguy76 — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:28:18 GMT

that is a very rare occurance, it is no different than being unlucky and being allergic to bee or scorpion stings. its just something that potentially happens. also, a fwc, in order for it to provide any possibility of reaction or venom infusion, it has to gnaw on you for a solid few seconds. most humans, i hope, are smart enough to say, "hey, there is a snake chewing on my arm, i better remove it". and its usually gonna happen while in feeding mode, not defensive strike and release mode. fwc's are great, i recommend them to anybody. mine is awsome, typical nasty cage and feeding responses but great and tame out of her cage.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Uncle Vinny — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:11:13 GMT

Lol...you guys crack me up. When I was a young herpeteculturist in training (mind you, more than 15 years ago...) I once thought to myself, "Self, it would be AWESOME to get a green anaconda, a king cobra..." and the list went on.

Now, this was before the dawn of youtube and fast internet, thus information wasn't as great, but available at the library (when they still had card catalogs...). I read up as much as I could on the subject and decided, hey I should get a ball python. And I did. Know why? IT CAN'T KILL ME!!!

I commented on a post quite similar about a kid wanting to get a freaking taipan. Yeah, that's intelligent. I'm 29 and would LOVE to still get something like that, but I'm smart enough not too until I fell as if I'm ready. It can only take one bite, and you WILL get bitten eventually.

I read a book on venemous snakes of the word by Mark O'Shea (dude gets bit ALOT and has a tolerance to many various venoms) and mentioned something about a herpetologist getting bitten by a rear fanged colubrid, I think it was a false water cobra, and had a reaction to the venom and died. It could have been a different species, but still, something to consider dude. Strongly consider.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:06:59 GMT

That makes such a difference -_- oh it doesn't have western diamond back venom just timber rattler venom.... because that is SO much less deadly than an atrox, yeah.
FWC's are by no means deadly, but they are definitely not for beginners either, or even intermediates.

RE: the care of false water cobras

reticguy76 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:25:13 GMT

fwc's are great animals. i recommend them to anybody. they are venomous, but they have to really gnaw on you and you not remove them for them to do any real damage. most people, would be smart enough not to say, hey there is a snake gnawing on me, ill just watch it. a simple strike and release by a fwc, will not do much, if anything, at all. they are not comparible to a c. atrox, their venom is more compatible with a c. horridus, with even less milligrams of venom excreted per bite.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:42:25 GMT

you guys are right, and next year i will be busy trying to get money from selling other stuff anyway.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Steve 95 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:20:42 GMT

jaredscorns6794 (10/20/2009)

i have had a decent amount of trainging with my uncle so thats why i am starting out with something not so toxic like the fwc. after i get settled for a few years after college i plan on working with something a little more advanced. but even then i might wait longer to take that step.

Finally, you understand. You made a good desicion

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:41:03 GMT

I'm not sure about the not so toxic part... A lot of hot keepers
I have asked about this compare the venom to a western diamond back but in smaller portions.... Other websites describe it the same way. The general consensus seems to be that False water cobra venom is just as potent as western diamond backs but because it is rear fanged and has smaller glands it is harder to deliver the venom and when it does it is in smaller doses.
IF this is true however all it takes is one good bite to land you in the hospital.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:43:51 GMT

RE: the care of false water cobras

damiens daddy ken — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:06:56 GMT

Most of the people that have been keeping herps longer than we have been alive wouldn't even think about getting a hot until they go through the proper training.

I agree with this part whole heartdly.(as I said in another forum one time)I had a black forest cobra and very damn near got tagged,after that I decided that I wasn't quick enough to get out of harms way if need be got rid of the snake and never handeled hots again.At the time I had about 3 years expeirence I now have 13 years expeirence.I never underwent training never will because i'll never have hots again.I'm not telling you what to do i'm just telling you how I feel,I don't have a problem with people who want to keep them it's just not for me.All i'm saying is I think you should have alot of expeirence before you even get training.And you should have training before handling hots.

RE: the care of false water cobras

pythonman14 — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:16:44 GMT

ok i have something on topic to say aswell but i just have to say that you past history is like 90% like mine except i have been doing it for a few more year [ 5-6ish i can't remember lol ] and have a greater variety of animals but other then that wow

ok time for the on topic part of my post lol

false water cobras are in matter in fact rear fanged venomous that is a commonly accepted fact but there is a decent amount of this and that when it comes to its venom all may be true though but i have heard ALOT of different things about its venom the only one i truly believe 100% is from a buddy of mine who had one for sale in his shop awhile back and while caring for it he got tagged the snake was only like 4' long and it was able to inject venom quite easily and this guy is about my size like 5' 11"-6' ish the venom he said had some sort of ant-coagulant because he wouldn't stop bleeding for quite some time

and another thing that is very noticible about this species is that males get a good bit bigger then females females will usually only get about 5-6 feet long while males commonly get to be around 7 1/2 to 8+ feet long

i would suggest that you begin out with a slightly easier to deal with rearfanged snake like the mangrove snake i have one they are alot of fun [ by fun i mean interesting ] to deal with and they have never been commonly bred in captivity so that would be a great challenging project for someone with your background and mangrove have a slightly weaker venom and don't get quite as large but if you have a underlaying heart condition or a MAJOR lung condition then you may not want to keep mangroves since [ i forget the name of it ] but tier venom affects the heart and the lungs and for a decently healthy person worst case scenario would be a hospital trip and a day or two of being under observation

RE: the care of false water cobras

jsinhardcore — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:16:48 GMT

For anyone really interested in this subject.

Glenn, J.L., et al. 1992. Analysis of the Duvernoy's gland and oral secretions of Hydrodynastes gigas. pp. 19-26. in P.D. and J.L. Strimple (eds.), Contributions in Herpetology. Greater Cincinnati Herpetological Society, Cincinnati, Ohio.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Steve 95 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:14:12 GMT

jaredscorns6794 (10/18/2009)

steve95 i have done a lot of research and talked to the breeder and found out the venom isnt that big of an issue. necrosis is when the tissue and blood disitegrates around the bite area. and telling me that i am not ready for that snake is kinda my decision. i know i said i have only kept herps for two years but i have been working under my uncle and the guy that is now my business partner since i was ten. granted i didnt handle anything dangerous right away, but i think i am more than ready to have a snake that is not as toxic as you think it is!

"the venom isn't that big of a issue"

Um, last time I checked people don't like a big blob of dead cells on there skin because their FWC bit them (Im even not going to mention the treatment).

"i know i said i have only kept herps for two years but i have been working under my uncle and the guy that is now my business partner since i was ten."

Just because you've been working with herps for 5 years dosn't mean you can keep hots. Most of the people that have been keeping herps longer than we have been alive wouldn't even think about getting a hot until they go through the proper training.

"but i think i am more than ready to have a snake that is not as toxic as you think it is"

From the sounds of it, no your not. In this topic, I have never heard you say anything about first aid or what you would do if you got bit.

This is edited, i didn't have enough time what I wanted to say.

Ok first, your 15, i find it hard to beilive that a 15 year old kid has a well running cornsnake buisness and goes to school at the same time. Second, this topic started off as 'I need some info on how to care for them' and on this last post you said you've done a ton of reasearch on them. Your constantley changing your story. Im starting to think that your pretending to be someone that you arn't. Please prove me wrong, I want to be proven wrong. That would be awsome if you were telling the truth. Show me pictures, websites, whatever.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:04:42 GMT

i know what you mean. i do have plans on going to college, and i plan on driving b/w there and home so i will have the room for them. after that i am not sure yet.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:57:57 GMT

You are still young though, no denying that, and there is always going to be that worry of "what will you do when you go to college" cause if you want to keep all these animals you will need to go to college. Not that you can't have animals and go to college, I do, but it will make things easier if you only have a few.
Also, as far as FWC go, they are probably a good stepping stone into the world of hots because they aren't as deadly as others but they should still be treated just like any other venomous snake just in case you happen to be that person that has a violent reaction to the venom. It might be a good idea to keep a few active non hots with an attitude to get an idea of how you need to handle them. That is entirely up to you though.
However... I do agree that you should have kept a few different things for more than two years before stepping up... working with them and keeping them are two different things. For example, I have worked with black throat and nile monitors, but I am not at all ready to keep one. I haven't even kept many lizards myself. I would just take more time and work with more species before taking a step up.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:23:14 GMT

RE: the care of false water cobras

jsinhardcore — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:47:00 GMT

Keep them like 8 foot corn snakes with slightly higher basking temps and ample humidity hides. They have feeding responses like sharks and have a strike first ask questions latter mentality when hungry. I would not house one in a glass enclosure since like an indigo, they could smash the glass while securing prey. FWC have a pretty fast metabolism so they eat alot and often. They tend to dry out and have bed sheds easily and they are also awkward to handle.

Bites arent that big a deal for most people just dont let them chew obviously. I wouldnt call them "hot" since i feel they are just big, really active hognoses but just like bee stings some people could have a VERY BAD reaction to a bite. Its a species id think twice about keeping at your age just due to their size and activity level alone.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Steve 95 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:42:23 GMT

jaredscorns6794 (10/18/2009)

with all the work i have done with hot herps i think i can keep them now. and the way i meant for that to sound was that i am a beginner in keeping hot herps.

Your changing the story, someone who has been keeping herps for 2 years should not get hotts. I recomend you should get a snake that some members on this topic already suggested.

And another thing about the poisin, little is known about it. The poisin is known to cause necrosis (whatever the hell that is), edema, and depending on your imune system alot of pain. You have to face the truth; your not ready for this snake.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:57:17 GMT

with all the work i have done with hot herps i think i can keep them now. and the way i meant for that to sound was that i am a beginner in keeping hot herps.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:32:42 GMT

jaredscorns6794 (10/18/2009)

i consider myself a beginning herp keeper since i am only 15. i have a history of dealing with hot herps, but i have never kept one before so i put it in beginner herpers.

I wouldn't put anything to do with hots in the beginner section... because hots are not for beginners, even people who are beginners with hots should NOT be beginners and if you consider yourself a beginner herper then you should not be keeping hots.

RE: the care of false water cobras

opal — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:32:21 GMT

me too.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Steve 95 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:24:07 GMT

mbmosley (10/17/2009)

Um okay. I'll be 14 by the start of November, and I'm from Georgia.

!? WTF?! I thought you were in your 30's!

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 06:23:55 GMT

where at in georgia mosely, i've got friends where i go field herping in savannah

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 06:22:24 GMT

i consider myself a beginning herp keeper since i am only 15. i have a history of dealing with hot herps, but i have never kept one before so i put it in beginner herpers.

RE: the care of false water cobras

Sinkarnate — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:32:21 GMT

I haven't read over this entire thread, just came in at the end but given the conversation here I am wondering why it's in the beginner herpers discussion......

RE: the care of false water cobras

mbmosley — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:57:59 GMT

Um okay. I'll be 14 by the start of November, and I'm from Georgia.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:21:03 GMT

mosely, how old are you and where are you from? i like to know something about the people i am talking with.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:15:27 GMT

i know i will get bitten eventually, but lets just hope its not for a while

RE: the care of false water cobras

mbmosley — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:11:15 GMT

Okay, but remember that its not "if you get bitten," its "when". And venom isn't the only issue. Don't get too many new snakes either. Have fun.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:09:28 GMT

i appreciate your concern mosely, but i think i am more than qualified to breed fwc's, considering my background with hot herps.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:07:06 GMT

dont worry im good to go. i still have my snake hook from when i went herping in missouri. i lived down there and worked with my unk. i would catch and release cotton mouths, copperheads, timbers,etc... and i made sure i did not get bitten. and i helped my business partner with his saw scaled viper, which are highly aggressive.

RE: the care of false water cobras

mbmosley — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:57:47 GMT

Woah, guys hold up...

You understand that false water cobras ARE venomous right? They aren't very efficiant at injecting, as they are rear-fanged, but your entire hand arm could swell up for a week or two if you get bit, not to mention it will hurt like crazy. Although no deaths have ever been recorded by FWCs, if your allergic to the venom, you could very well die (although not heavilly studied, their venom's toxicity has been compared to that of a timber rattlesnake, but they can not inject as much as efficiantly). Of course there isn't an anti-venom for them so...

They get huge. Some have been recorded to get over 9 feet. They are very active and require a lot of space. They are typically pretty flighty and have no problem with biting.

If you end up getting one, treat it like a venomous snake. This isn't one of your corn snakes. Don't do anything you wouldn't do to a front-fanged snake until you trust it very well, but still be very careful. You don't want to get bit.

I would personally get a carpet python or maybe some kind of Old World rat snake. Carpets, in particular, are very beautiful and easy to care for. But hey, if you honestly think you're ready for a large, mildly venomous animal, then go ahead. Have fun.

Don't get an Exo Terra cage though. They are expensive, don't have big enough sizes, and are made of glass, which is much less efficiant than plastic. I would recommend a Boaphile Plastics cage or something similar.

Opal, please make sure you know what you are talking about before you answer people's questions. All you told him was to get an appropriatly sized Exo Terra cage. You obviously don't know anything about the care of false water cobras. Was it you (and sorry if I'm wrong) that told somebody that a "Chondro" was a "lemon (or maybe lime?)" relative of a green tree python, although it is actually just a GTB. Its not a big deal, but then you said "I was just guessing." Didn't you also say you hated people giving false info. on herps in the off topic discussion.

Its not a big deal, but please at least do some research before you post. Please don't take it personally.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:47:07 GMT

all right, i am probably going to turn in before too long too.

RE: the care of false water cobras

opal — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:43:47 GMT

i've been told that by 3 people , two of which in person. Well, I gotta go. I won't log out though.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:43:04 GMT

thx steve 95 i am sure i will need all the luck i can get with all the snakes i am going to be working with.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:41:57 GMT

you should become a serious breeder/seller opal, you meet a lot of people and the money isn't bad either.

RE: the care of false water cobras

opal — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:39:12 GMT

I get shipments of 500 crickets every 2 months. they go by fast.

RE: the care of false water cobras

jaredscorns6794 — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:32:13 GMT

i always buy a large shipment of mice from rodent pro every year so i'm good there. the cages are ready to, i just need to go buy the pair of snakes.

RE: the care of false water cobras

opal — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:31:48 GMT

wow. I am really becoming a selling breeder now!