|
|
|
New Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:25:53 AM
Posts: 7,
Visits: 35
|
|
I tried posting this at the kingsnake.com forums, but had no luck with responses. Hopefully someone here will have something to say.
I recently adopted a male leopard gecko (Bell Stripe APTOR) and discovered it has vision problems. The best he seems able to do is sense shadows that pass over his eyes. He has no reaction to feeding tongs being placed very close to his face or his eyes. At times it's very difficult to feed him, he doesn't realize it's a mealworm tapping his chin.
Being an albino, this makes sense. It was silly of me not to have thought of that beforehand. I don't regret adopting him; he's large, healthy, inquisitive, and quite beautiful. I'd like to take the credit for him getting comfortable in his new enclosure so quickly, (with one of my females) but his previous owner kept him in good health. Plus, leopard geckos seem amazingly resilient in general, so maybe the lizard deserves most of the credit.
I have 3 females that I've been keeping for years, going through a slew of problems but figuring out through trial and error the best habitats I could provide for them. One dropped a tail when I temporarily housed them together a year or so ago, but other than that, no serious problems.
I adopted this male with plans to breed him and my females, but this vision problem has me hesitating. Unless I'm mistaken, vision problems seem well known among albino morphs. I realize that this is a pet and not a wild animal, but I feel guilty even considering breeding creatures with a mutation that impairs their vision. My females all have good eyesight. I'm often impressed by how accurately they strike at their prey. They're voracious and formidable little hunters!
Perhaps I'm looking at it from a blatantly human perspective. In the wild the odds are definitely stacked against an albino animal surviving. Yet in his enclosure, I do everything I can to guarantee he thrives. From a survival perspective in captivity, his vision problems really aren't a detriment, I half-grudgingly admit.
I'd like to hear how leopard gecko breeders and animal breeders in general feel about this issue, because I'm assuming it doesn't just apply to leopard geckos but is an effect of albinism many critters experience. However, I've read a bit online that says this type of problem may happen with too much exposure to bright lights; that while vision problems exist this is the extreme end of the spectrum. This is the first albino animal I've ever cared for, so please, I'd love to hear from those of you with more experience.
- Alex
Question everything. Don't be comfortable, and don't take anyone's word for it. Research claims to decide for yourself whether or not they're true, or support them with information when you make them.
|
|
|
|
|
Average Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 7:32:03 PM
Posts: 949,
Visits: 912
|
|
| Im no leopard gecko breeder, but if I were you then I would go for it! The chances of the offspring having eye problems depends on the female. If one of them has a het. albino then 3/4 of the eggs will be albino. If the female is just a plain leo, then they'll be all normals. And anyways, why would a stupid disabilitie make you decide not to breed the leos? Its really fun to breed herps, I've done it with anoles before. And you can sell the leos too, especially if there albinos, you can get a good price for them.
______________________
0.0.1 Python regius
0.0.1 Eublepharis macularius
______________________
"Life is so unlike theory"-Anthony Trollope
|
|
|
|
|
New Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/25/2009 10:35:41 AM
Posts: 39,
Visits: 68
|
|
It becomes an interesting addition to the ethics debate... Should something that is currently considered a defect, but that does not effect the quality of life in captivity, be allowed to breed to other similarly "defective" animals.
After all, albino leos are "defective" from the standpoint that they don't exist in nature and would probably be at a disadvantage in the wild.
For those of you that are ready to respond "of course they should not be bred," do you similarly disapprove of human albinos? Would you go so far as to tell a human albino that they shouldn't ethically have children?
We're breeding these animals for our own enjoyment. There's no ethical reason to breed leopard geckos to begin with. Let's not forget that.(Note: I'm just playing the devil's advocate, so please don't think I'm casting judgement here)
 Real doctors treat more than one species
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 1:05:56 PM
Posts: 294,
Visits: 427
|
|
Humans in general shouldn't breed -_-
As for the gecko, I wouldn't if the eye problems are actually genetic and not result of an injury or something. I honestly had never heard of eye problems being common among albino leopards geckos...
But yeah... it's like breeding a snake with a kinked spine, a responsible breeder who is going for quality shouldn't do that.
|
|
|
|
|
New Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/25/2009 10:35:41 AM
Posts: 39,
Visits: 68
|
|
Sinkarnate (10/14/2009)
Humans in general shouldn't breed -_-
As for the gecko, I wouldn't if the eye problems are actually genetic and not result of an injury or something. I honestly had never heard of eye problems being common among albino leopards geckos...
But yeah... it's like breeding a snake with a kinked spine, a responsible breeder who is going for quality shouldn't do that. I don't agree. It's nothing like breeding a snake with a kinked spine. These animals NATURALLY lack pigment in their eyes which makes them more sensitive to light in general. Which isn't too much of a problem, seeing as how they're nocturnal and don't require any overhead lighting to begin with. Snakes don't NATURALLY have kinked spines or curled tailes, or whatever. So basically, anything that isn't "normal" or "wild-type" shouldn't be bred?
Real doctors treat more than one species
|
|
|
|
|
New Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:25:53 AM
Posts: 7,
Visits: 35
|
|
Very good comments so far, thank you for your contributions! I hope to see some more.
In my humble opinion (I say it this way to avoid semantic arguments):
Blindness is a disability in those organisms who evolved to use vision. Yes, I know there are plenty of organisms who don't see at all, at least not in the sense that those with true "eyes" do (there are different kinds of eyes).
However: Leopard geckos should be able to see. It is, at the very least, a hassle to me at this moment to feed a blind one. It requires at least 10 times (literally) the amount of time it takes to feed my "normal" geckos: Pick up mealworm/whatever with tong, hold it in front of gecko, gecko eats it, repeat. With the blind gecko, I'm not quite sure what semblance of vision he has. Whatever it is, it allows him to see that objects are moving around him. I'm not entirely sure he can judge their distance. I have to hold the worm near his mouth, tapping it lightly in an effort to get his mouth to open and bite down. Sometimes he does it right away, sometimes it can take 10 minutes to eat one worm.
All of this is really my problem, though. As I've said before, as long as I'm putting in the effort to maintain his health, his blindness doesn't really pose a threat to his survival. I have only tried one method of feeding (from tongs). Perhaps if I put a dish with worms in his enclosure, he'll eventually find them and gobble them up. I'm pretty sure his previous owner did this. (I have some of the little dishes with partial lids I believe Ron Tremper designed for feeding purposes).
Now then, what if this blindness is a heritable trait? (I'm going to have to look into the information the first poster provided me. I have a rudimentary knowledge of genetics but essentially none specifically involving leopard geckos. No offense intended, but I don't take anyone's word for anything unless there's data to prove it. It surely exists, I just haven't read it yet.) Potentially, I'll have a bunch of little baby leopard geckos with the same defect and the same problems (assuming that the severity of the blindness will be the same).
Preserving the integrity of the animals is very important to me. Yes, these are being bred for our pleasure essentially. Part of my pleasure is enjoying the efficiency of evolution. Genes for color etc (including albinism) clearly have other consequences as well (pigments in the eyes and whatnot). Selective breeding is hard work, because if you're working toward a specific goal, you may overlook the consequences from the steps involved to get there.
I'm still leaning toward not going through with it.
How do the rest of you feel?
Question everything. Don't be comfortable, and don't take anyone's word for it. Research claims to decide for yourself whether or not they're true, or support them with information when you make them.
|
|
|
|
|
New Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 8:25:53 AM
Posts: 7,
Visits: 35
|
|
Humans in general shouldn't breed.
Haha, yes. Quoted for truth. I suppose I'm an elitist and a narcissist for saying so though. Guilty as charged. 
Question everything. Don't be comfortable, and don't take anyone's word for it. Research claims to decide for yourself whether or not they're true, or support them with information when you make them.
|
|
|
|