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So u want to keep venomous??? Expand / Collapse
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Posted 4/30/2008 6:41:16 PM


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There's been some recent inquiries in the past several weeks regarding different aspects of keeping venomous snakes, so I'm gonna address some general points here and hopefully, it can become a pinned topic for the future after a week or so.

First of all, let me say that I have never kept a venomous (hot) snake in my life, so the following information is advice and tips I've learned from those who have.  I know there's a couple hot keepers that are members here, so if they would like to cover anything I missed, by all means, do so.

There are two rather unnofficial rules of the Venomous Snake Club:

1.)....don't talk about Venomous Snake Club! Lol.....this is often used as a joke (in reference to the Fight Club movie), but its partly true; most hot keepers are very discreet about their hobby and are often very reluctant to share advice to just anyone.  So its best to be discreet and aware of who you talk to, and really be careful how you conduct yourself and word your questions intelligently (just FYI, superb grammar skill help with this!)

2.) If you have to ask if you are ready for keeping hots, you're probably not.  Many herpers want to jump into hots long before they're even ready.  Pretty much every hot keeper I've talked with agrees that there is really no non-venomous snake species that truly prepare you for any venomous species.  Its like using slingshots and squirt guns for a summer, then you want to buy a real gun.  There's a world of difference.  Some people seem to think that snake keeping is some kind of game, and that it's a natural progression to start keeping hots after you've kept X types of snakes for X number of years.  Its not like that at all.  This isn't some "game" where hots are the next "level" you have to beat.

 Its is always suggested to find an experienced hot keeper and mentor under him to gain knowledge and experience yourself.  In fact, some states require this before you can legally own a hot on your own.
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Okay, so let's start at the beginning....

I.) You first need to ask youself why you want to get into hots and understand the severity of your decision.  Unless you truly are fascinated about the select hot species you desire and would like to learn more about them via firsthand experience, you need to re-evaluate this whole thing.  Snakes (or any animal for that matter) are not status symbols; if you want to prove your masculinity, buy a Hummer or take karate lessons.  If you want to impress your friends, learn to juggle or something.  Bear in mind that the ramifications of screwing up with keeping a hot snake are much more dire than any of the other things I just mentioned, or keeping a python or kingsnake.  The least worst thing is that the animal escapes your custody and may never be seen again....the worst case scenario is it crossing path with a neighbor and bites them, possibly sending them to the hospital or killing them.  And of course, you could let your guard down for a sec and receive a bite yourself.  And any version of the above will result in very bad press for all reptile owners.  So remember that your actions represent the hobby as a whole; after all, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  There already have been weak links that release their burmese pythons loose in the Everglades and look where that has led us.

II.) Have you considered the medical and insurance issues of owning a hot?  For starters, most insurance companies will drop you if they discover you own a hot (or any snake for that matter!).   So you need to make sure you have a good health/life insurance with a well-informed agent you can trust.  Also, be prepared for medical expenses.  Antivenin is expensive.  One bad bite could cost you thousands of dollars in medical bills that your health insurance may or may not cover.  These are important things to keep in mind.

III.) Let's say you've mentored under an experienced hot keeper, and you are genuinely ready for keeping a hot of your own.  A lot of people ask what the best beginner hot snake is and they sometimes get different answers.  One thing B.W. Smith suggests to remember is locality and lethality; meaning you want to keep something that doesn't have a high-fatality rate and something whose antivenin is most readily available.  For most people living east of the MS river, a copperhead is most likely the best choice; the bites from these snakes, even as adults, are rarely known to be fatal and because they're so frequently encountered in their range, most hospitals stock the correct antivenin for copperhead bites.  So in the event of a bite, the worst you can normally expect is a steep hospital bill, a temporary incapacitated digit/limb, a bruised ego and hopefully, some wise insight on how to avoid getting bit again.  Other commonly suggested hots for beginners are:

 - Eyelash viper = these little buggers are similar to copperheads in that they're small,  do not have very lethal venom, and their antivenin is somewhat commonly available (most zoos should have it if the hospital does not).  However, their drawback is that they're tricky to deal with with a snake hook due to their arboreal nature of coiling tightly around limbs.

 - Gaboon or Rhino vipers = these guys are often suggested because of their usually slow and placid demeanor. However, this group of vipers has some of the fastest striking snakes on the planet, something like 27 ft per second.  The human hand, even in a reflex, simply does not move that fast, so if your guard is let down, these snakes can surprise you.  And a bite is no fun; their antivenin is not so common.

 - Monocled cobra = now, any elapid is a different ballgame from vipers; most vipers are fat and slow and relatively easy to deal with a good hook.  Most elapids are fast, active snakes that demand every bit of your attention when their cage door is open.  That said, monocles are usually a good starter elapid because, like the eyelash viper, they're a staple at almost every zoo, so most zoos will have their antivenin on hand.

IV.) Proper caging is a must, and glass tanks just don't cut it.  You need to invest in a custom snake cage that is escape-proof and has locking mechanisms whenever the cage is closed.  Bricks and heavy books atop the screen lid on an aquarium is not secure.

V.) You probably want a separate room reserved specifically for your hot(s).  Make sure the room is secure and virtually escape-proof should the hot somehow escape its cage.  Also make sure the door can be locked to make sure "unqualified" people do not enter the room without your permission.  Get with an experienced hot keeper to help you design it properly.

VI.) Get the proper equipment; snake hooks, tongs, lockboxes that double has hides, etc etc...

VII.) Also make sure you keep accurate records of what hots you keep and proper protocol for your loved ones in the event you get bit.  Most hospital staff have very little or no training on how to deal with snakebites so its better to help them as much as you can.  This protocol includes listing all the nearest sources for the antivenin you need.
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This is only the tip of the iceberg as far as keeping hots go.  But hopefully it gives everyone a good idea of what is really involved with keeping venomous.  Its a serious hobby meant for serious keepers.  There's very little margin for error.

Here's a link to Al Coritz (aka viperkeeper on Youtube) websites:

http://www.deadlybeautiful.com/

http://youtube.com/user/viperkeeper?ob=1

Also, here's a link to ReptileRadio.  Look for the segments from Ray Hunter (Cobraman) and B.W. Smith:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptileradio

Make your posts count...don't count your posts.
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15 yrs working with reptiles, 9 yrs petstore experience.  Always learning...the journey never ends! 
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Current Collection:
1.0 ball python
1.0 Dumerils boa
1.4 dotted house snakes
0.0.1 cape house snake

Post #57733
Posted 4/30/2008 7:14:29 PM


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I also want to say a little something about venomoids.  For those who don't know, a venomoid is a venomous snake that has had its venom glands and ducts removed.  There is much heated debate on whether this is ethical or inhumane or not, but I have to agree with Ray Hunter on this one.  He doesn't really agree with the practice himself, but in his words, "I have no right to tell you that you can't own a venomoid anymore than you can tell me that I can't own an 'intact' hot."

That said, there's a couple things to know about venomoids:

1.) Make sure that the procedure has been performed on a qualified vet.  Too often, unqualified backyard butchers attempt this themselves in a dirty warehouse to save money and easily neglect to do the procedure correctly and/or injuring the snake in the process.  This often results in a snake who is still "intact/lethal" but sold as a venomoid.  Who wants to be on the receiving end of that mistake?!?!  Bottom line: Qualified vets and dealers will provide authentic documentation of the procedure.

2.) Even if this procedure is done properly, the venom glands/ducts can regenerate! This is especially true for elapids.  So periodically have your venomoids milked to test if they start getting "warmer."

Another good site that focuses on venomous reptiles is Venomdoc.com, and has a good section regarding discussion of venomoids:

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums

Make your posts count...don't count your posts.
----------------
15 yrs working with reptiles, 9 yrs petstore experience.  Always learning...the journey never ends! 
--------------
Current Collection:
1.0 ball python
1.0 Dumerils boa
1.4 dotted house snakes
0.0.1 cape house snake

Post #57742
Posted 5/1/2008 7:05:02 AM


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One day I'd like to keep venomous reptiles, but for now I'll stick to non-venomous.  And I thought that taking out venom glands kill the snake, isn't that what those snake charmers do?

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Fire Bellied Toad-Lilly+Marshal

 

Post #57760
Posted 5/1/2008 7:21:02 AM


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And I thought that taking out venom glands kill the snake, isn't that what those snake charmers do?

It doesn't kill them, but some argue that it inihibits their ability to catch live prey, which is why most suggest only feeding a venomoid prekilled or f/t.

No, snake charmers merely rip the fangs out of the snake and/or sew the mouths shut, both resulting in the snake living out the remainder of its short life abused,wrought with pain, and starving.

Make your posts count...don't count your posts.
----------------
15 yrs working with reptiles, 9 yrs petstore experience.  Always learning...the journey never ends! 
--------------
Current Collection:
1.0 ball python
1.0 Dumerils boa
1.4 dotted house snakes
0.0.1 cape house snake

Post #57767
Posted 5/1/2008 7:59:53 AM


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I've already made up my mind and I plan on keeping. Research research research!!!

=============================================:>~

1.1.0 nicaraguan boas
0.1.0 amazon tree boa
0.1.0 jungle carpet python
1.2.1 corn snakes
0.0.1 ball python
1.0.0 rose hair T
0.0.1 pinktoe T (A. avicularia)
along with 31 other herps at work
 13-14 years for me
Justin Smith
Post #57769
Posted 5/1/2008 9:26:31 AM


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MDC:    

No, snake charmers merely rip the fangs out of the snake and/or sew the mouths shut, both resulting in the snake living out the remainder of its short life abused,wrought with pain, and starving.

Not all snake charmers do this. There are a lot religions that worship the snakes (mainly the Cobra). The tribal elders have special shrines for them and they also do the whole snake in the basket things. They revere the snakes and believe that they will bring good fortune to the village if they are kept happy.

The ones that abuse the animals are the people that are in it only for the tourist's money and really have no experience handling snakes, they just know that Americans and Europeans will pay good money for a side show. 

Post #57773
Posted 5/1/2008 9:44:15 AM


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Yeah, but the "shriners" don't do anything to the snakes. 

My point was simply that any snake-charming practices over there that do involve "cheating" don't do it properly. 

Make your posts count...don't count your posts.
----------------
15 yrs working with reptiles, 9 yrs petstore experience.  Always learning...the journey never ends! 
--------------
Current Collection:
1.0 ball python
1.0 Dumerils boa
1.4 dotted house snakes
0.0.1 cape house snake

Post #57774
Posted 5/1/2008 10:09:05 AM